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RPP

Upcoming Mythic Keystone Changes in Patch 7.2.5

publicado 02/05/2017 a las 20:20 por perculia

Edit: added clarifications as to the chest rewards.

Blizzard

We’ve been thrilled to see how positively players have responded to Mythic Keystone dungeons since Legion’s release. However, there are a couple areas in which our original design for the system hasn’t quite matched up with how things have worked out in practice. In an upcoming 7.2.5 PTR build, we’re going to try out a couple of changes to how Keystone runs work.

The first big change is that we’re getting rid of the depletion mechanic. We’d originally imagined that getting ahold of a Keystone would be more of a barrier than it is, but in reality, there are so many players participating that it’s generally not too difficult to find someone with a Keystone you’d like to run. In that environment, depleting a Keystone is more of an annoyance than anything else – especially when it happens for reasons outside of your control (such as a player disconnecting).

Instead, we’re going to try the following:

Completing the run on time will have the same results it currently does in 7.2: you’ll get a new Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1-3 levels higher than the one you just completed, based on how quickly you finished.
If you complete the dungeon but don’t make the timer, you’ll get a Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1 level lower than the one you just used.
If you don’t complete the dungeon at all, you’ll have a Keystone for the same dungeon that’s one level lower than the one you just used.

The other thing we’re looking to change is the way that rewards are given at the end of a run. Currently, when you complete a run that upgrades your Keystone by 2 or 3 levels, you’re also given a 2nd or 3rd chest. This is because, when we believed that Keystones would be rare, we didn’t want you to miss out on any of the loot you might have collected from the runs you were “skipping.”

However, because of this, players tend to look for lower-level Keystones that they can easily stomp through, instead of higher-level Keystones that are appropriately challenging for their gear and skill. That, in turn, affects who they’re willing to invite. AOE damage output is preferred over everything else, because the only concern is how quickly you can clear through easy trash packs. And gear requirements tend to outpace what actually drops: if you could find upgrades in a Mythic 6, you’ll have a hard time finding a group, because the Mythic 6 groups are full of players who are capable of clearing 10+ and are just looking for an easy 3-chest.

With that in mind, here’s the changes we’re planning to test:

You no longer receive additional chests at the end of a run for completing it quickly.
When you finish a Mythic+ dungeon, the chest at the end will contain two items and an appropriate amount of Artifact Power.
If you beat the timer, regardless of how quickly, there will be a third item in the chest.
Keystones can still upgrade by 2 or 3 steps, so you can quickly get to a difficulty level appropriate for you.

Our overall goal with these changes is to incentivize groups to take on dungeons where they know they’re likely to see upgrades, instead of preferring keys that are far too easy for them. Once the Tomb of Sargeras raid is available on Mythic difficulty, we’ll also increase the maximum rewards from Mythic Keystone runs to level 15.
To clarify: with these changes, the chest at the end of each Mythic+ run would contain a total of 3 items (2 if you don't beat the timer). That's split across the group, not per-person.

So yes, it's fewer total items than a 3-chest finish in 7.2. However, it's an increase in items for players doing 1-chest clears at an appropriate difficulty level. This is also why I mentioned that the difficulty cap for M+ will be increasing to 15 once Tomb opens on Mythic.

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Comentario de KallePHP I like the whole idea of removing the depletion of keystones thing, but I'm not certain yet how the end rewards of chests are gonna work out, I kinda like that as it is currently and makes you really put some effort into getting a perfect strategy for getting those extra chests, especially on higher levels Comentario de Daichimaru I find the changes to the Keystone System quite interesting, but I see a problem with the changes to the multiple reward structure.
I believe that getting rid of the potential to get much AP reward for comparatively little work will result in a sharp plummeting in party creation for lower Keystones thus making it harder for low-geared Characters to rise in item-lvl. Comentario de dingledots Killing carry groups that dont ask for gold? YES! killing the no lifers that spend 12+ hours to push a 22 into a 23? YES. So people will actually have a mythic+ wowprogress score relative to their skill and not how many hours they spend in 1 dung? YES. Only downside is the less gear on 2-3 chest runs but meh. Not a big deal if theres more incentive to run high keys. 99% approval from me! Comentario de chriswagie By two to three items at the end, does it mean per person or total? Comentario de Berl So great lets make getting good gear upgrades and warforges from m+ even harder then it already is by cutting the loot drop in half very bad idea. Comentario de BlightArc You really think running 1 dungeon over and over will help your M+ wow progress score? You know a +10 gives you 100 points.. and that's it.. you don't get 100 every time you run it. you get 100 points for each dungeon, you have a 1200 score for completing all 12 at level 10. every level above 10 gives you an additional 10 points. ONCE. M+ scores are very very relevant. If I'm looking to fill a spot in a group, I use wowprogress to determine what the player has completed (or not completed) at that level. I wouldn't bring someone with a +15 achieve if they hadn't done a +15 for the dungeon I was looking for. You talk !@#$ on the guys who do what it takes to get a 22 done, yet you have 0 experience with a key that high. Do you even M+ bro? Comentario de Anatta With these changes a group can keep using their own keystones indefinitely. Deliberately de-leveling it and endlessly running dungeons at whatever level they desire. In the current system a M+ group will push their keystones up to a level that they can't handle, and then spend the week pulling in strangers for their keystones.

The AP reward for doing keystones above the level that gives the best gear is very small compared to the extra effort and time needed. So players looking to be efficient will just keep their keystone at 10 (or presumably 15 when ToS is released) by resetting the instance a couple of times to level it back down.

Together with the removal of reward for very high speed runs, the PUG dynamic will significantly change. A lot of people (basically any DPS with ilvl below 900) are going to find it very hard to find a group when their keystone is no longer a valuable commodity. I understand that the idea is for lower level characters to group up together and do the lower level keystones, but with the oversupply of DPS characters there'll always be a 900+ character willing to do a M+6 dungeon for AP and the chance of a massive titanforge.

P.S. I'm a resto druid main with bear as offspec. So any QQ is on behalf of other people, not for myself. Comentario de sinangelus Nerfing the ability to troll and deplete someone's key? Sure.

Nerfing the incentive to create world of boostcraft and armies of boosted animals just because they happened to roll a maw key or whatever is the hot cake after maw nerf? Sure.

Nerfing the gogogo speedrunning "only 3 chest" runs for ADHD ridden playerbase? Yes please.

But 1 thing is missing from the whole picture, and that is incentive to actually do a challenging key. Once someone can "speedrun" a 15 in TOS gear they have still zero incentive to "challenge themselves" pushing to 20 or higher, because the rewards don't scale, and once you unlock concordance, the AP gains are gonna be small drops in the sea. Comentario de dingledots Actually I had my highest as a 22 last patch and done a 22 this patch already and i dont even spend half a day trying to push a 22 into a 23. FIrst off, understand what i said... When i said people were running a dung over and over I meant that they were running a very high lvl dung repeaatedly to try to beat timer to get a higher key. So instead of people trying to get that perfect run to beat a timer that they normally wouldnt be able to... they now can only beat a dung lvl that they actually deserve to beat. Its no longer going to be based on how many hours you spend getting perfect runs for mythic+ score. Its going to be based on how good you are at consistently beating high lvl stones. i.e. People actuallly good at mythic+ will have that shown... people that suck but are good enough to get a perfect run out of 20 tries will show that theyre good but they'll have to spend even more time doing it. Overall a healthy change in that regard. Comentario de Solanthious This needs clarification from blues. If it's 2-3 100% guaranteed per person, this is a good change. If it's 2-3 100% guaranteed to split between 5 people, you'll never see anyone run but 1 highest they can each week. Comentario de kodora1316 At least they're trying to fix the "have gear WAAAAAAY past what you'll get in here just to join" problem. Comentario de Terrassen No one wants to do "higher keystone levels", level 10 is the highest level for gear currently. Anything above level 10 still rewards level 10 gear. Comentario de Alugana Let's take average player. To "likely to see upgrade" ilvl drop should be at least 905. Now. Not in 7.2.5. To keep it that way, and not flood everything with loot, it should be drop from dungeons like level +15 - +16, not less. Again, now, not in 7.2.5. That mean "likely to see upgrade" is not even close possible in 7.2.5 if loot cap will be at level 15, so all this changes is nonsense with declared goal. Comentario de lovelywaz "If you don’t complete the dungeon at all, you’ll have a Keystone for the same dungeon that’s one level lower than the one you just used."

I just have one question regarding this. What is stopping me to zone into the dungeon all alone and use my keystone (eg. level 21) multiple times to bring it down to whatever is good enough for me or just to keep it hitting 3 Affixes and then do a proper run?

Rinse and repeat ....

Edit:
Eg. I can keep a keystone at level 9 forever for easier clear this way and keep doing quick clear runs for AP and chance at titanforge loot. 7 mins MoS runs yay! Comentario de dingledots Doing keys higher than 10 are not only fun and challenging but also give more AP. The in-dungeon chests and weekly chests give more AP the higher lvl dung you do. There's 2 reasons to do them right there. Comentario de pilot3931 RIP Mythic+. Is was nice place for AP at the beginning of the addon and for titanforged loot after 7.1.5. Comentario de MaXiiczek Interesting changes, I bet many M+ farmers will cry, but overall it's a good change for normal players Comentario de mmarkus13 add timewalking+ I have recently finished the wotlk dungeon on average of 8 minutes pulling everything under the boss.It was fun and it was fast. Tho these changes look cool and I like them running a dungeon fast still should give something. At least an announce that this is a new world record on this difficulty. ( I know that you track it (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pve/leaderboards/aegwynn/black-rook-hold) Comentario de Tokensb Am I the only one concerned about the fact we'll now get only 1 legendary chance instead of 1-3? And ultimately cumulatively this means people running M+ will have a far worse chance of getting legendaries then they have now?
That aside, I run my m+ with almost the same group of people, friends and guildies cause I wanna do it as quickly as possible to get more loot and legendary chances, we rarely invite a 5th person to our group, but even then it's based on their class if anything and the basic understanding that if you can't get 900 ilvl, it's kinda your fault. I don't want you to ever make me run lower ilvl geared players in content they are supposed to gradually move onto, find people to do it with regularly like I have and get used to wiping in m+. You're basically creating a shortcut for people where as all of us had to go over months of wiping, trying and getting used to M+. I'll still do it with the same group of people, but you're making me have to run 3X as much M+ to make it even for me to get a legendary from it.

Also, you created the AP system where we have to farm AP which most people do via M+ and then you tell us you want us to go and choose dungeons cause of gear instead of stomping through them? We're doing it for the AP since most of the people running M+ regularly aren't looking for upgrades in instances. I won't run CoS or Arc for an upgrade over another dungeon cause your WF and TF system made it impossible for me to know if an upgrade will drop or not. A base level of 890 when I'm 910 isn't an incentive to go for upgrades, but it if happens - yay me. I don't think you'll see the change you are hoping to get with this so buckle up and get ready for abuse of key depletion, no change in who gets invited to groups and a pissed off community. Comentario de potrock they lost me here with the mixed information, said loot drops will be the same ,, 2 items for completing or 3 for on time, but mythic+ gives you 2 items per chest. Thats 6. unless they are saying each person gets 2-3 items each or the whole group gets 2-3 items, both scenarios make their statement that loot will be the same very wrong...

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