I don't think I mind the low bait as much as I do the high bait item. I'll admit that I should have looked closer when buying Pastel de chocolate delicioso for 193g, when it turned out to be Moho de cueva delicado. Again, it is definitely up to the buyer to pay attention, but it takes a special kind of person to intentionally deceive people like that.
I don't think baiting can be described as "ethical" at all, actually. If there is a person who chooses not to do it, then this behaviour would mean they are disadvantaging themselves in order not to disadvantage others. This behaviour would certainly seem to be moral, seeing as it takes others into consideration, but it also maintains the expectation of parity of exchange, which is ethical behaviour in an economic system.Baiting is the opposite. It causes disadvantage to others in order to gain, and it does not maintain the parity of exchange, but subverts it. As the former behaviour is clearly "ethical" and baiting is the opposite behaviour, I don't see how one behaviour can be ethical and its opposite can also be ethical. At the very minimum, a system of behaviour that seeks to justify itself with the argument that "other people should be less stupid" can't describe itself as ethical.
I don't like talking about ethics in games because the next question that invariably follows is "should Blizzard do anything about it?", and my stance is a hard "no." What I think should happen is for people to be made aware of how people can be jerks to each other and given the tools to guard against it.Regardless of the ethical concerns, a consequence of automating trading is procedural blindspots. If you know the algorithm of a competing trading computer, you can trade in such a way to make much more profit than you would without that information. I consider this kind of trading to be the corpse camping of pvp realms. Did the person sign up and accept the risk? Yes. Is it still a jerk thing to do? Yes. The question of "ought to or ought not to" is irrelevant. People will do it, so figure out how to guard against it. And if you don't...that's like complaining how the hotel you just opened in an ISIS hotspot just got destroyed.We have friendly communities to help mitigate these risks through education.
Ohno someone is taking advantage of that poor AFK seller running a terrible TSM string LOL.Not at all a jerk thing to do. If they cared about more gold they'd buy yours and post at a "good" price.4500 at 14g99s guy prob duped them anyway. Always loved the AH econ lesson in game. Thanks for neat post.
Ethical is a point of view for some people based on background, experiences, etc... Sure there are definitely some that would say there is basically Right vs. Wrong, but in this instance among other things it is more of a perspective. There isn't any real exploitation taking place, the system is being used and not circumvented, albeit probably not based upon the what the majority feel are the right way to go about selling things. Do I agree with it, no... Do I want something put in place to prevent it, probably not. Just by me paying attention, knowing my markets, and not just blindly accepting whatever the system wants my auction posted at should be enough. Will there be those that get buffalo'd by this... sure, otherwise people wouldn't waste their time. I really liken it back in Classic / BC when people would post things like Rune Thread for 50G (Which was a lot at the time). I was new and had know idea there was an actual vendor for it. So man for like a week I saved up to buy the 10 I needed. Bought them, and not 15 minutes later someone in my guild was like "WTF are you doing" lol. I was pissed at the time, but it's funny to think about that event from like 13-14 years ago. People still consistently put vendor items up for a markup, and people consistently buy them often times because they can't be bothered to go somewhere else to buy them or hunt them down.Just like in real life there are swindlers that look to take advantage of things, there will be here too. Just need to know how to look out for it, so applaud the article bringing it up if nothing else.
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
The only way to get the AH mount now is buying tokens. Farming mats will make you insane unless you really love it, and flipping is way to risky and server dependent for it to be reliable.
There's one phrase with regards to the baiting discussion:Caveat Emptor.It's impossible to know if someone is baiting, accidentally listing low, or just doesn't give a hoot what their listings sell for as long as they -sell-. At the end of the day, when you list an item, you're at least in theory listing it for what you're willing to sell it for... or you weren't paying attention. If you weren't paying attention, that's too bad. Pay more attention next time. If it's what you were willing to sell it for, does it really matter if someone else flips it for more? You got the price you asked for.
Sometimes I'll post something low, just because I want it to move. Let someone else repost it, possibly several times, at 'market' price. I've also posted higher than the current minimum cost, because there weren't too many of the item, and I thought they'd sell and mine might too.
Blizzard can fix this real easy. Don't remove the Brutosaur. Fixes everyone rushing to farm and sell everything not nailed down. Market on my servers have collapsed to near nothing on most mats. This is a direct result of the rush to get this mount before its removed.Keeping the mount available from the vendor should fix most of these issues.
When classic first came out, a lot of people were posting items below the vendor price. I basically just sat around buying undervalued items. During that time I had 4 people that sold items worth around 10-12 gold each for less than 1 gold. Those are the only four I know about because they all sent me a message (all of them started off by cursing at me). Two of them I told them I was just buying items that were undervalued and I met up with them and sold the item back for what I bought it for. One of them wanted me to just give him the item back. I refused that and he ended up on my ignore list because he kept harassing me about "stealing" an item from him. The last one sent me a very nasty message and then logged off before I could message him back. In all four cases, it wasn't my mistake, but I was willing to spend my time helping them correct their mistake. One of these times I feel certain someone will just message me politely telling me they made a mistake and asking if I will return the item. Of course, this is the way WOW used to be. People were a lot more understanding when someone made a mistake. The community was just much more friendly.
LazyBeast Gaming here (wish my username reflected that.. doh!) Thank you so much for mentioning me here! I never expected that, made my week! Just wanted to say that for anyone else starting their good making super late and aiming for their brutosaur, if you have the time to put in to raw gold making its totally doable. But, even if you’re clueless about the AH, you seriously have to check out Samadan’s guides to TSM, and just give it a shot, you’ll definitely learn something, even if you don’t become a fully fledged goblin, you’ll be able to make gold and play smarter when it comes to the AH, or even just automate some processes and save yourself valuable time. Can’t recommend enough! Thanks again, all the best <3
I think it's unethical. It takes advantage of the hard work of players that aren't necessarily lazy or blind, but may be exhausted from working all day or even new and don't know any better. I think the fact that the person even admits they felt guilty is an obvious sign it's not right.
I really like the idea of baiting strategy, it looks like a way how to punish those people who always undercut even when they realistically ruin the market as the final price is not worth the time anymore. But I would be probably afraid of just feeding cheap stuff to someone else trying to bait...
I made a basic error the other day. I'm probably a good candidate for being baited as well ! I posted a Big Red Raygun toy for 1g. Value is anywhere from 20-50k! I tend to power through listing items just accepting the current price. Which is fine apart from baiting as mentioned, but not fine if there are no items at all for sale. In which case, the AH will list the item for 1s or 1g or some such. Costly lesson to pay attention, I assume some TSM sniper could not believe his luck that day :-)I don't blame anyone but myself - whether it be for being baited or for not paying full attention like I did. Annoying - you betcha - but nobody's fault but mine and I don't hold it against that lucky person who made 40k :-)