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Mythic+ vs PvP vs Raid Gearing Systems in Shadowlands

[posted hace 25 días updated hace 20 días by Squishei]

Gearing Through Mythic+

In Battle for Azeroth, the reward from completing a +15 keystone was 5 Item levels higher than Heroic raid. In Shadowlands, the reward from completing a +15 keystone is now 3 item levels lower than Heroic raid. This is a massive swing that probably was done to prevent players from trading Heroic Castle Nathria loot, but the exact reason was never clarified.

In addition, Shadowlands reduced the amount of base loot from Mythic+ from 2 to 1, while still offering +1 loot for timing the key and additional loot for keystones above +15 keystones. This means that when going for loot, timing the key is even more important as you get 100% more loot from timing the key in Shadowlands, versus only 50% more loot in BFA.

Dispositivo cuántico inescrutableArtillería empíreaexact For a Vengeance DH with 65 possible Items from dungeons, you have:

A ~1.53% to get the item you want with 1 option for a Vengeance DH
A ~4.62% to get the item you want with 3 options for a Vengeance DH

Dispositivo cuántico inescrutableMaestro de la piedra angular de Shadowlands: temporada 1

Strengths

Weaknesses

• Gear drops do not have a lockout.
• Drops Intermediate Gear (Up to Item Level 210).
• Decent as a pseudo catch-up mechanic as spammable Item Level 210 gear.
• Loot Chance can be altered by funneling and trading.

• Only one opportunity to get a 226 piece per week.
• No opportunity to get 233 weapons or other gear slots.
• Intermediate Gear cannot be upgraded.
• Loot chances are still random, even while stacking the group.

Gearing Through PvPConquistaHonorConquistaConquistaConquistaHonor

Strengths

Weaknesses

• Purchase Gear for the exact slot that you want.
• More than one opportunity to get a 226 piece per week.
• Deterministic access to a 233 weapon, which can be RNG'ed into at the start of Week 2.
• The ability to upgrade gear pieces as you improve.
• A full catch-up system for Conquest.

• Gear drops are fully gated by Conquest.
• No Intermediate Gear
• No opportunity to get 233 pieces in other gear slots.

Gearing Through Raid

Loot rewards have been reduced from 5 pieces to 3 pieces of loot per 20 players.

Bonus Rolls were removed, which allowed for additional chances at specific pieces of loot.

Strengths

Weaknesses

• Drops Intermediate Gear (Item Level 213 and 200) from different difficulties.
• Offers Item Level 233 weapons.
• Only source of Item Level 233 in certain other slots which includes trinkets, ring, cloak and more.
• Loot Chance can be altered by funneling and trading.
• Multiple opportunities to get 226 pieces per week.

• Intermediate Gear cannot be upgraded.
• Loot chances are still random, even while stacking the group.
• Loot rewards are gated by the weekly lockout, leading to little personal catch-up opportunities.

Conclusion: Best Way to Gear in Shadowlands

Raiders want to do Mythic+ to get Intermediate Gear and then PvP to get deterministic gear to fill in gaps.

Mythic+ers want to do Raid and PvP since they can't get 226 gear outside of their weekly vault.

PvPers want to do Raid and Mythic+ because PvP loot is gated behind weekly resets.

Opinion on Gearing in ShadowlandsSegmento sinuoso de Drest'agath

Comentarios

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Comentario de immoralsoulRaid and M+ loot (or lack of reward even beyond loot) sucks right now. It doesn't feel good and is a major blemish on a good start to the xpac in my opinion.

Doing ulduar yesterday and watching a 15 man get 3-4 pieces and people being happy vs. 2 pieces the night before in CN was just crazy. Sure people are happy to get loot in CN, but it just feels crappy to down a boss and 85% of your raid walks away with what amounts to nothing (35 anima is a joke)

The game could do with a valor upgrade system at least.Comentario de r1dd3lgearing is pretty bad, if you check forums you will see only complaints, something went really wrong with the system, i understand loot is harder to get but no loot at all is no deal
also forcing people to pvp to get gears? wtf is that, you blizz always do that though
m+ getting less loot if it is out of time leads people to just leave dungeons
people cant play alts because the gearing system is so bad, due to terrible balance only few specs are present in the game
seems like a total mess to meComentario de BlacKcuDI really enjoy the PvP system the most, because you can guarantee your loot and work towards it. Yes, PvP isn't for everybody, but the requirements are not that steep and you can set yourselves goals.

My group really misses some sort of pity timer or special currency for M+. You can run 20 +14s in a weekly reset and not get a single item. That is not even "unlucky". That is just normal for at least one person in your group.

I totally get it: they don't want people to crush the raid by spamming M+. That is fine with me. However, at least some sort of scaling which rewards top-end players could go a long way. Everybody that is running 14+ at the moment is just doing it for the challenge and for fun. Nobody is gearing that way for reals. I think it would provide additional incentives for mediocre players to push beyond 10s if there were certain breakpoints to strive for.

What would break if you make it so that starting at +12 you get an additional item for in-time runs?
Would it really hurt anyone if you get 10x key level Anima?Comentario de OzanKurtThey should just make every reward max ilvl when done in a certain difficulty. A +20 key should always reward more than heroic. It's understandable that it has no limit but will people actually manage to do it? If someone is good enough to complete a +20 they should get rewarded.Comentario de 7upyourzThis is such a flawed system in my opinion. I strongly feel that PVE players should 100% not feel forced to do PVP in order to keep up with item level.Comentario de VarusEUFor some reason it seems Blizzard doesn't want M+ to become its "own thing". That is a shame, as it's the game mode that I enjoy the most. I don't really want to raid, but if I want to play M+, I have to.
It feels bad, as many of the higher key dungeons are far more difficult than the heroic raid.Comentario de DaPiePieceThe main thing that Mythic+ is missing might just be Titanforging as Mythic+'ers end goal.Comentario de darosRaiding Weakness:
Only Mythic Raiding is giving real Great Vault options.
HC raiding vault rewards are equal to M+7, while even players progressing Normal are doing higher keys.Comentario de Dogmarxi dont wanna raid or do m+ :/ just pvp at least the bfa system had a chance to randomly drop gear instead of just the weekly gateComentario de domi1294Biggest issue in my opinion is the distribution of trinkets between PvE and PvP sources, most classes if not all want a PvP trinket to do PvE because having just stats with additional stats on-use or as a proc is so much better than almost anything you can get from PvE. Conversely PvP players that aren't running double PvP trinkets for the vers increase are looking to get one of the big damage on-use trinkets from the raid (like the Drestagath trinket last tier) because putting big damage on-use trinkets in your "one shot" macro is really strong too.Comentario de Spanky2kGearing feels so bad right now. Doing PVE content in general feels really unrewarding. It just feels like they’re trying to slow content down and doing so in a way that just feels bad. I love the Great Vault but we should have an alternative route to gear acquisition like a currency for m+ with which we can buy specific items from dungeons, on top of the current rewards. It can be a slow acquisition route, something like Titan Residuum for Azerite pieces was but instead for any item in the dungeon loot table. Give me the ability to work towards getting the best pieces I want without rng.Comentario de Deathcamwhat they should do raids and m+ is something similar to pvp (unrated/rated pvp gear upgrades based on rating) or world questing (covenant campaign set upgrades).

justice points for mythic plus (lets say de other side trinket to upgrade to a +15 version if you cleared that dungeon on a 15 TIMED)

could say the same for raid gear with a valor point system (like upgrade a stone legion piece to mythic ilvl if you CLEARED mythic stone legion)

I am only saying this because everyone i see run past with the mythic 15 mount or looking at semi mythic/hc raid geared peeps that they are half pvp geared equiped for ilvl in which i think having an upgrade system for dungeon and raid gear would resolve the issue of needing pvp gear to push higher keys or raid boss progression.

It doesnt have to be weekly vault ilvl even just atleast the end of dungeon chest ilvl for m+ it would make ppl farm keys more but still yet have the motivation to push and hopefully time higher keys and feel more rewarded for doing so outside of raider.io or the feat of strength achievement.

Or just simply revert the amount of raid boss drops.Comentario de minka25M+ need higher item level. 10ilvl under mythic raid for end of +15 dungeon loot and 1:1 mythic ilvl for weekly chest.Comentario de Aro725First, how's it feel PVErs to have to do content you don't like to get good gear? Now you know how PVPers have felt. Second, you're telling me a plus 15 should drop a 233 wep? No shot the difficulty level is even close to 2400 in arena or mythic end boss kill. I agree that the amount of loot dropped is disappointing. And if the end of dungeon reward ilvl was raised no one would heroic raid. Now that raid ilvl is higher no one wants to run mythic plus. Maybe make it even so ppl could pick? I feel like the difficulties are about the same between m15 and heroic raid. But getting a 233 wep from mplus at a plus 15 lvl would be ridiculous. Third, the stats from pvp gear aren't suited for everyone. If you want your best stats you won't be gearing from pvp vendor for pve. How would M plus feel with no end of dungeon reward and only currency to buy a piece of loot maybe once a week or a weapon in 4 weeks? People also forget to upgrade a wep to 233 takes full 15k honor cap. If you can even get 2400 rated. Maybe less rng out of the vault, like you could pick 2 or 3 dungeons you want to get loot out of the vault from? I just don't agree with the pvp loot is the way for pve. Maybe based off main stat and ilvl alone at first. But most pvers besides monks and tanks don't want vers on anything.Comentario de ZewinterPvp gear is at it's strongest point for pve since vanilla. And it's already pissing off a lot of pvers that I know.
For someone that slowly wants to progress throught mythic and are 3/10M or less, doing pvp is the best way to get gear and that's absurd.

It wouldn't surprise me if they nerf it in the next season.

Pvp gearing is clearly broken and over-rewarding with the way M+ and raiding work since you can target pieces and get 233 weapon (with 2400 rating) when less than 10 guilds have killed Denatrius mythic. They need to timegate way more the gear for pvp and the upgrade system, or just remove the upgrade concept for conquest and let the great vault be the way people should gear in pvp like M+ is done.

Or they could buff back raiding loot and M+ loot, but that would accomplish the same thing.Comentario de WeryxThe main thing that Mythic+ is missing might just be Titanforging as Mythic+'ers end goal.Comentario de nlc1I would not like to see a return to BFA M+ loot which made raiding irrelevant in terms of gearing (except for high end guilds clearing mythic in the first 5 or 6 weeks). The current system is much better balanced. Bad luck protection for end of dungeon loot and some kind of slot targeting system in the weekly vault would fix the main issues, I think.Comentario de WeryxPvp gear is at it's strongest point for pve since vanilla. And it's already pissing off a lot of pvers that I know.
For someone that slowly wants to progress throught mythic and are 3/10M or less, doing pvp is the best way to get gear and that's absurd.

It wouldn't surprise me if they nerf it in the next season.

Pvp gearing is clearly broken and over-rewarding with the way M+ and raiding work since you can target pieces and get 233 weapon (with 2400 rating) when less than 10 guilds have killed Denatrius mythic. They need to timegate way more the gear for pvp and the upgrade system, or just remove the upgrade concept for conquest and let the great vault be the way people should gear in pvp like M+ is done.

Or they could buff back raiding loot and M+ loot, but that would accomplish the same thing.Comentario de ZewinterPvp gear is at it's strongest point for pve since vanilla. And it's already pissing off a lot of pvers that I know.
For someone that slowly wants to progress throught mythic and are 3/10M or less, doing pvp is the best way to get gear and that's absurd.

It wouldn't surprise me if they nerf it in the next season.

Pvp gearing is clearly broken and over-rewarding with the way M+ and raiding work since you can target pieces and get 233 weapon (with 2400 rating) when less than 10 guilds have killed Denatrius mythic. They need to timegate way more the gear for pvp and the upgrade system, or just remove the upgrade concept for conquest and let the great vault be the way people should gear in pvp like M+ is done.

Or they could buff back raiding loot and M+ loot, but that would accomplish the same thing.Comentario de PaulnutzThe main thing that Mythic+ is missing might just be Titanforging as Mythic+'ers end goal.

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