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Subtlety Rogue: First Impression of the New Subtlety Talent Trees in Dragonflight
Dragonflight
Publicado
08/08/2022 a las 10:00
por
fuu1
With the reveal of the Dragonflight Rogue talent trees, our Subtlety Rogue writer fuu1 provides initial reactions and thoughts on this revamped system. We break down the Subtlety Rogue talent trees, discussing the new talents and providing some sample builds. Join us as we predict how this class could play in Dragonflight!
To learn about the best PvE talent builds in Dragonflight for this class, and export these builds into the game, please check out our Assassination, Outlaw, and Subtlety Rogue class guides:
Assassination Rogue Talent BuildsOutlaw Rogue Talent BuildsSubtlety Rogue Talent Builds
Rogue Dragonflight Class Tree
Rogue Dragonflight Talents - What's New?
The start of the new expansion Dragonflight completely overhauls the existing talent system. Instead of unlocking a talent tier roughly every ten character levels, you are now presented with two trees you can put in points as your character level progresses. The class tree contains spells that are core to the class fantasy while the spec trees will emphasize on abilities unique to your specialization or extends baseline abilities into aspects that fit the spec fantasy. These trees contain both active and passive abilities that reach from damage throughput to utility.
The first thing every Subtlety player will notice when looking at the tree is that both
Danza de las Sombras
as well as
Descubrir debilidad
are now class abilities. While this is a great addition for the other two specs, it means that some of the most iconic Subtlety Rogue specific abilities are now part of the general class fantasy with other implications stated further down in the article.
There are also three unexpected returning talents with
Sangre fría
on the right side of the tree and the Kyrian covenant ability
Reprimenda resonante
as the capstone node for the middle path as well as a the iconic item
Té de cardo
that returns as a spell with three charges.
The tree also offers some strong options from the other two specializations with
Golpes acrobáticos
,
Gubia
and
Sellar destino
.
You can also choose from an array of new passive effects with
Letalidad
,
Tacañería
,
Emboscada mejorada
,
Versatilidad de ladrón
or
Venenos virulentos
.
Rogue Dragonflight Talent Tree - First Impressions
By adding a lot of Subtlety Rogues core abilities to the talent tree you create an imbalance in that you likely need to go down the right branch of the tree to get your baseline Shadow Dance charge. The main reason is that
Danza de las Sombras
in combination with
Sombras crecientes
lacks dynamic in use without two
Danza de las Sombras
charges and the only way to get this is to talent into
Danza de las Sombras
in both the class as well as the spec tree.
Considering the above, I came up with three example talent tree builds:
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
Going down the right path allows you to grab
Burlar a la muerte
,
Descubrir debilidad
and
Danza de las Sombras
.
Tacañería
is skipped mostly because of the low impact.
Ruptura
and
Hacer picadillo
have already a fairly low energy cost of 25 energy
Eviscerar
is a bit higher with 35 energy. This means that the energy return per finisher for each point in the node is 2-3 energy.
Golpes despiadados
in contrast gives 6 energy per combo point for a single node. The tree also offers alternative energy talents that might be more efficient.
Going down the middle path gives access to
Emboscada mejorada
which gives
Embate de las Sombras
additional combo point generation. The problem with this is that we create potential combo point overflow. Putting one point into
Estratagema de profundidad
could solve this but
Estratagema de profundidad
is also a very expensive node as it requires three points of
Prontitud
.
Prontitud
by itself is a very powerful talent but it seems like it might not be worth to invest this much into a talent that might be able to self sustain with only a one or two point investment.
Switching some points around by moving from
Estratagema de profundidad
to
Vigor
seems possible but Subtlety does not seem to benefit a lot from the extra energy buffer.
When less points are put in
Prontitud
and potentially
Letalidad
, it opens up the middle path down to
Reprimenda resonante
. While this seems attractive, it is unclear if the point investment gives sufficient returns. The problem is that this requires an additional pickup of a utility node with
Elusión
that only unlocks the full potential of
Reprimenda resonante
after a 3 more point investment.
A completely alternative path would include moving even more points from the middle path to the left side of the tree to unlock
Sellar destino
. The potential problem with picking this is that you can combine
Sellar destino
with
Emboscada mejorada
which would create even more combo points that would lead to either overflow or earlier finishing rules.
Sellar destino
also gets more consistent with higher amounts of critical strike. However, the additional combo point generation would allow
Danza de las Sombras
to get even more cdr from
Sombras crecientes
.
Overall I think there are some interesting decisions in the tree and trade offs to be considered.
Problems of the Rogue Tree:
Most of these problems are smaller concerns but something to think about:
Some nodes seem to be weak and are usually not considerable due to that. Two examples are
Té de cardo
and
Tacañería
. Neither of them seem terrible but hard to justify over other nodes.
Some nodes require multiple point investments with low/diminishing return potentially locking the player out from choosing follow up nodes. Both
Prontitud
and
Letalidad
fall under that with
Prontitud
being the more problematic one, given that it is possible that 1-2 points could already satisfy the talent to maintain the maximum stack amount.
Burlar a la muerte
is a very strong raid utility that is very far down the tree, this is not an issue for Subtlety as you in general will want to take the right path anyways, but could be earlier in the tree to make the talent feel more generally available.
Subtlety Rogue Spec Tree
Subtlety Rogue talents for Raiding - What's New?
The spec-specific tree contains some completely new spells, as well as a couple of returning ones and some changes to existing spells.
Danza macabra
- A completely new spell that seems to be inspired by
Reprimenda resonante
.
Sombra persistente
- A completely new talent that empowers
Puñalada
after using
Danza de las Sombras
.
Ni rastro
- Is a new talent, that gives you a second charge of
Esfumarse
.
El primer baile
- Seems like a modified version of
El primer baile
that gives you combo points when using
Danza de las Sombras
Sombras replicantes
- Is a rework of the Battle for Azeroth azerite power
Sombras replicantes
that spreads
Ruptura
to one target and makes
Ruptura
tick for additional 30% damage.
Inevitabilidad
- Is an iteration of the Battle of Azeroth azerit power
Inevitabilidad
.
Ponzoña oscura
- Is a new talent that converts more of your damage to shadow and allows it to interact with
Dagas profundas
.
Tocado por el velo
- Is a new talent that empowers your magic damage, it seems weak as a single node but could work well in combination with
Ponzoña oscura
and
Dagas profundas
.
Tormenta silenciosa
- Is a new talent wich provides the player with a more consistent way to apply FW in multi target situations.
Irrevocable
- Brings back the legendary power
Irrevocable
that empowers your next finishing move after using a finishing move. The buff duration was cut down to 12 seconds.
El podrido
- Brings back the legendary power
El podrido
that generates combo points after using
Símbolos de la Muerte
.
Polvo de sombras vigorizante
- Brings back the legendary power
Polvo de sombras vigorizante
that reduces all remaining cooldowns by up to 20 seconds when using
Esfumarse
.
Sepsis
and
Flagelación
- Both covenant abilities that return as talents.
Flagelación
in a slightly changed version to proc Mastery instead of Haste.
Venas perforadas
,
Ejecución planeada
,
Decisiones rápidas
,
Estilete staccato
and
Dagas profundas
- Returns conduits from Shadowlands.
Several Talents got adjustments in duration or impact:
Símbolos de la Muerte
,
Hojas de las Sombras
,
Danza de las Sombras
- Got nerfs to their damage amplifiers.
Danza de las Sombras
duration went up to 9 seconds from 8.
Sombra oscura
and
Irrevocable
- got a buff to their damage amplifiers.
Enfoque de las Sombras
- Energy reduction got lowered from 20% to 15%.
Venas perforadas
- Now stacks only to 3 down from 6.
Subtlety Rogue Dragonflight Talent Tree - First Impressions
The Subtlety Rogue tree is still in early development. It has some issues but the recent alpha update did fix some. The current version is mostly linear after the 8th point investment. There are no connection between the 3 branches that would allow you to continue. The middle part of the tree is mostly focused on spells that depend on
Danza de las Sombras
, the right branch is mostly finisher/AoE focused. Almost all AoE nodes can be skipped now which allows the player to make more precise decisions for their damage profile.
Example Builds
There is a lot of room for experimentation in the trees and I welcome everyone to experiment and see what works well and what does not. I will provide one example for a single target and Mythic plus tree below.
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
Both builds are very similar in pathing as the right side seems to offer a high amount of strong nodes. The middle path gives you access to
Danza de las Sombras
and
Sombras crecientes
to create the baseline feedback loop of the spec.
Sombra oscura
gives additional power to
Danza de las Sombras
.
The right side gives you a lot of nodes that synergize well.
Ponzoña oscura
increases the damage of your bleeds as well as further increasing damage from nodes like
Remates de las Sombras
and
Sombras replicantes
.
Dagas profundas
buffs it by another 15% and another 10% from
Tocado por el velo
.
Irrevocable
increases the baseline damage what just further increases output.
Flagelación
is also a strong pick, given that it does shadow damage and gets benefits from all the shadow/magic damage amplifiers mentioned above. All these Talents work very well together and should allow subtlety to have a more magic damage heavy split.
The outstanding nodes on the left side are
Símbolos de la Muerte
and
Sepsis
.
Ponzoña oscura
converts Sepsis to Shadow damage what allows it to benefit from all the talent nodes above that interact with magic/shadow damage.
Símbolos de la Muerte
adds another cooldown that can be aligned to
Flagelación
or
Sepsis
to increase throughput by providing a 10% damage amp as well as a higher critical strike chance from
Ejecución planeada
.
The build is overall very well rounded and has a lot of positive aspects to it. The transition to a build with more focus on multi target or AoE is also fairly simple. The two initial nodes
Paso de las Sombras
and
Decisiones rápidas
can be changed to
Tormenta de shuriken mejorada
and
Pólvora negra
and
Sepsis
can be exchanged for
Tornado de shuriken
. After switching these nodes it is possible to switch from
Premeditación
to
Tormenta silenciosa
. But the choice here is likely more situational.
Another exciting build to explore on single target would be to re-distribute some points into
Sombra persistente
and
Hoja de la penumbra
. Doing so could shift more of the damage of the specialization to time between
Danza de las Sombras
cast with potential to optimize casts in a way that maximizes
Sombra persistente
uptime.
Problems of the Subtlety tree:
The change to
Venas perforadas
makes the power potential of the node hard to read and gameplay implications non obvious. Reducing the stack count from 6 to 3 means you will cap on stacks in the middle of
Danza de las Sombras
. It is likely that it isn't worth to use
Puñalada
during
Danza de las Sombras
but that could depend on other node choices. The 6 stack approach from Shadowlands does not suffer from this problems which would make it a great solution.
The lower left part of the talent tree seems less appealing.
Polvo de sombras vigorizante
being a two point node with the requirement of going over
Venas perforadas
makes it a risky choice given that the CDR component isn't necessarily a big damage gain.
Danza macabra
similar to
Reprimenda resonante
will lead to a bad user experience. The main problem is the somewhat random combo point income from
Técnicas de las Sombras
(procs on each 3rd or 4th auto attack). While an experienced player will be able to count auto attacks to use the empowered finisher efficiently, a lot of users will find themselves using finishing moves on inefficient values due to combo point generation of
Técnicas de las Sombras
.
Puñalada mejorada
still has positional requirements and recent boss fights did not always make it easy to stand behind the target or had hit boxes that behaved in a non-logical manner. Having even more damage dependencies from nodes like
Venas perforadas
makes this more punishing.
There is a broken dependency between
Técnicas de las Sombras
and
Estilete staccato
. While it is unlikely that you will not talent into
Técnicas de las Sombras
, it seems like something easy to fix by moving nodes around.
There is still no choice node in the Subtlety Rogue tree.
Lack of Raid Utility
Dragonflight introduced raid utility to both the Outlaw as well as the Assassination spec tree. Outlaw got
Tripulación inquieta
and Assassination
Veneno atrófico
. While the impact of both highly depend on raid design and group composition, it creates a uneven playing field within Rogue specs and the potential to require one spec over the other due to spec specific raid utility.
The best approach to solve this is to move raid utility to the class tree and have access to it for all specializations.
Subtlety Rogue Dragonflight Talents for Raiding - How Strong is It?
The elephant in the room at this point is sadly raid utility, and will likely stay a relevant discussion up to the point of official changes, but I am fairly positive this will be adjusted.
Raid utility aside, the talent tree gives you options to decide between single target, multi target and in some cases also utility. Specific nodes like
Sombras replicantes
or
Ponzoña oscura
will integrate spells like
Ruptura
deeper into the spec and potentially help with damage in cleave situations. The main focus of the spec seems to still be single target and the gameplay loop will likely not alter significantly from the Shadowlands version.
Flagelación
changing from Haste to Mastery as well as
Danza de las Sombras
getting a potential higher damage amp could lead to a higher burst potential and help increase funnel damage.
Conclusion
The talent trees have gotten me hyped for the new expansion and given me something to play around with. The class tree is to a degree not as exciting, given that a most of the talents you would want to choose are in the Subtlety branch of the tree. The spec tree emphasizes the core aspects of the specialization and potentially allows for a fair amount of flexibility. However, the majority of the choice is in point changes in a smaller range.
Interested in playing Subtlety Rogue now? Check our out live guide for this spec!
Subtlety Rogue Guide
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